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Talk:New Players' Guide/@comment-4653543-20140912235936/@comment-4653543-20140918031054
Well, I don't want to turn this into a huge debate, but two comments on D. Metatron: First, while it may be possible to field a passable D. Metatron team using only farmable subs, I don't think you're going to be able to beat anything more than the easiest descends without some REM-only subs. To my knowledge there are no farmable dark attacker orb changers (certainly there are no orb changers on your list), meaning you will have a hard time maintaining a supply of dark orbs. And while a few of the monsters you listed have dark row enhancement, they all have serious flaws as D. Metatron subs. Helldark demons have terrible hps (which is really bad when you need to stay below 80% of maximum), Lilith doesn't get row enhancement until she gets an autoheal that is catastrophic for a low hp conditional team, and Cerberus has an active skill that is completely redundant. I can't really recommend D. Metatron to a non-IAP player, and if I planned to create a non-IAP account, I would probably reroll if I got a D. Metatron. And I would certainly prefer Da Qiao/Xi Qiao/Zhuge Liang/Red Sonia/any Chinese/Egyptian leader over her. My second comment is that even if I grant that D. Metatron should be in the top tier, I really don't see the justification for putting D. Metatron in the top tier but not Red Sonia. The only argument I have seen in these comments for not including Red Sonia in the top tier is that she is difficult to use in the early game due to the lack of devils in the early game and her high team cost. Well, there aren't many attackers in the early game, either, and D. Metatron also has a very high team cost. And Red Sonia is arguably the best late-game leader in the game. Perhaps a D. Metatron team with the perfect subs is more powerful than a Red Sonia team, but Red Sonia has a much larger potential sub pool. And you can create a very powerful Red Sonia team using only farmable subs (Duke Vampire Lord, Lilith, the Heras, Cerberus, and Hadar all jump to mind immediately), whereas D. Metatron relies heavily on the REM. She's also incredibly easy to use and very forgiving due to her massive rcv boost. And D. Metatron can't be used on dungeons where the first enemy will kill you in one shot (Athena and Trifruits jump to mind immediately; I am sure there are others) due to her hp conditional leader skill, whereas Red Sonia can clear basically any non-conditional dungeon. Finally, since she has only 5* rarity, it is easy to find friends for her. (I don't even have a Red Sonia but I still have 8-10 hypermax Red Sonias on my friend list.) Finding D. Metatron friends is much harder due to her higher rarity. My opinion (which seems to be shared by a large proportion of the PAD community) is that Red Sonia is the best starter in the game. I really can't understand why one would put D. Metatron in the top tier but not Red Sonia. As for the Greek/Norse gods, I'm genuinely curious how you would create a viable end game team with any of them as leaders. I guess the new ult evos for Freyr and Idunn and Idunna have some end game potential, but both of them would require multiple REM-only subs. (In fact, if you decide to create my proposed "Whale Tier" some day, Freyr is a very good candidate for it and perhaps Idunn and Idunna as well.) None of the others will be able to clear anything other than the easiest descends without some massive plus egging. At least I have never heard of a Norse/Greek team that was viable in the end game. If I'm overlooking something, I'd be interested to know about it. Sure, all of them are decent starters for an IAP player, since they will carry them through the early content until they pull something better. But a non-IAP player may never get a better leader than their first pull, so a serious non-IAP player needs a starter with end game potential. The Greek/Norse gods don't cut it, in my opinion. Anyway, anyone who is still reading this probably deserves a cookie. :) I'm mainly tossing this out there in case it's helpful for new players in the future. But if you decide that you agree with me and you edit the list in the future, then so much the better. :)